Counter the London System

I play a setup with Nf6, e6, c5, Nc6, d5, Bd6, O-O

@pointlesswindows said in #9:
> Yes 1. d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5! is a very strong line for white.
> 3. dxc5?! I usually get equal game with black (and this move is not played above 1600 lichess rapid).

2.c4 c5 is not the benoni defence? Or is it still london after Bf4?

Thx

lichess.org/@/Vitamixbrand/blog/a-surprising-new-idea-against-the-london-with-an-important-update/knE27kNo

In case you don’t know it yet.

@magicsacrifblunder said in #12:
> 2.c4 c5 is not the benoni defence? Or is it still london after Bf4?
>
> Thx

I mean I see Benoni often and London seldom.

There is a variation I like which can make london players uncomfortable.

1.d4 d5 2.nf3 nf6 3. bf4 c5 4.e3 Qb6

This position can be transposed into - but the main idea is Qb6 before white has a chance to play c3.

Attacking the weak b2 pawn and forcing a concession of either b3 or Qc1. There's some theory involved with it - and it's not some bombshell bust. But it's a psychological weapon against the mindless gameplan that white is afforded. I have a high win percentage with it. White can also play the cheeky 5. Nc3!, in which case the b pawn is poison, so black has to play a6 first.

You can also play Bb6 after white has played c3, but it leads to a very different kind of game, with white playing Qb3.

Since I play the Caro kann and the slav defense. I go 1. d5 and then try to play c5 to take d4 and either turn it into an exchange Caro kaon or an exchange slav. Because I am used to those positions.

The London System indeed is solid as a rock and - although I haven't faced it too often - it is pretty though to counter (in my Opinion).

Against 1.d4 (and also 1.c4) I usually play 1...Nf6 with a King's Indian Defense or Grünfeld in mind.

Against the London it is no different: I usually play 1...Nf6 and 2...g6, then the London will show its intention: In most cases, I either see an aggressive Rapport-Jobava-System set up (with Nc3, h4 and eventually e4 or f3) or a calm and "slow" set up (with h3, Nf3, Nbd2, c3). Against the "calm" set up I usually play with d6 more of a KID than I would play against the Jobava-Rapport set up. Against the "Jobava-London" I usually play d5 if I also get to play c6 (very solid, but for me it works best), I will also delay castling in this variation, whereas I will castle relatively quickly in the "calm" variation.
Sometimes I will also play d6 in the Rapport-Jobava-System, because it allows a nice pawn-break in the center (c5) and also ensures control over the e5 square (see #6 for reference).
So, a possible opening of mine may look like this: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 (The Jobava-Rapport-System) d5 (loses the grip over e5 but prevents e4) 4.Qd2 Bf5 (ensures, that e4 will not be played) 5.0-0-0 Bg7 6.f3 c6 (the c3 Knight won't come to b5)
or: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.e3 d6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 Nbd7 (preparing c5 and e5 breaks in the center)

Then again, I do not encounter the London System that often and as (somewhat of a) London-player myself, I usuall can navigate the middle and endgame more successfully.

I hope, that this post was useful.

@CritAura said in #16:
> Since I play the Caro kann and the slav defense. I go 1. d5 and then try to play c5 to take d4 and either turn it into an exchange Caro kaon or an exchange slav. Because I am used to those positions.

what do you mean with you try to play c5? post some example game.

I see you play caro and scandi. what are your impresions of those openings? also which one is more fun for u?

1. d4 d5
2. bf4 c5 (look into the lines if they accept the gambit, it's good for black if they do)
3. e3 cxd4
4. exd4 nc6

This should give you a good start. Your next moves will be some combination of bf5 or bg4, nf6, e6, bd6 to trade dark bishops.

A couple example games, it's called the Steinitz Countergambit:


Here one where they delayed bf4, you can still play the same idea with c5: